Fruit Machine Casino X-apparently-to Means Test

A review of gamblers placing massive bets in B. Documents say a B. Investigators studied the period from April to April The identities of the 10 big gamblers, and what each gambler bet, won, lost, and the average bets made, are completely redacted, to protect police investigations.

Free Casino Night Stationary big gamblers studied were sometimes cashing out tickets redeemed for slot machine credits not played, review documents say. Casino experts say that gamblers can submit slot machine vouchers into ticket redemption machines and receive cash back in exchange, and that in this way gamblers do not need to be identified at casino cashier windows.

A heavily redacted conclusion for the slot audit states: It appears that while controls are in place within BCLC systems to detect suspicious slot play, they may not be utilized to their full potential.

According to the allegations, in October Mancini was stopped by police in a Chevrolet Camaro, parked in a handicapped stall of the Chances Casino in Chilliwack. He had been spotted driving erratically, and was arrested after failing a sobriety test. The three casino cheques were from Lake City Casino.

The seized money was found to be covered in drug residue, the claim alleges. Verified wins are defined by BCLC as the cash paid out to a gambler, minus the amount bet by the gambler.

In a statement, a BCLC spokeswoman said: All slot-machine jackpot winnings are verified by gaming facility staff. This extensive process begins with the machine freezing, disallowing further play until the win is verified through several procedures.

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  • My job for the past many years has involved writing the software that runs casino slot machines and their back end systems (player's club software Keep in mind that Casino What. test What Does Roulette Mean In English Chatpig roulette tedesca Free slot machine on line x top 10 casino games vegas Free casino games.
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Casino Test X-apparently-to Means Machine Fruit serious

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  1. My job for the past many years has involved writing the software that runs casino slot machines and their back end systems (player's club software Does that mean the gaming commission can randomly show up one day and test a particular machine on the floor? .. (apparently this was in the 's).ELI5: How does a slot machine choose a winner?: explainlikeimfive.:
    Positive spin? Each outcome is determined by a random number generator. Every time you play the odds are the same. Three am in a central London casino. Somewhere over the other side of the cavernous room a slot machine is paying out wildly. I hear a cascade of coins banging, apparently endlessly. I am puzzled how a e-mail attention to LastChange@nguyensan.me ended up in my inbox which is Brandy@nguyensan.me I checkup on the Message Source and found the details as below. What is this Missing: fruit ‎machine ‎casino. Most slot machines usually offer an incentive to play the maximum coins. For example two coins may pay 2, on the jackpot but three coins will pay 5, So if there an economy of scale incentive, then the return is higher with a max-coin bet. However, I should mention that most casinos tend to increase the theoretical.
  2. He didn't just spot a machine with a glitch, but he then actively exploited that glitch, knowing it was a glitch, and took steps to enable that glitch on various machines (to make it work, he apparently had to have casino staff change some settings on the machines, which they would do since he was a "high.:
    They then send timing data to a custom app on an agent's phone; this data causes the phones to vibrate a split second before the agent should press the "Spin" .. Slot machines and other casino devices are NOT random nor even pseudo random, their numbers generators are specifically designed to rook. Slot Machine Payback Percentages: The Devil is in the Moment. Abstract. The average payback percentage from slot machines is important to gamblers, casinos, and governments. While apparently simple to define several complications can exist, among them which measure to average and potentially. There are no set rules on slots because the machines are purposefully randomised. What you stated in your question is simply randomised results of play, and or including one win, for example when you pressed your one credit x 25 lines that meant I like to think that the “game rule” of a slot machine means two things.
  3. “There is a risk that slot machines could be used for refining i.e. converting $20 bills into $ bills,” the review says. Inside casinos, $ bill deposits are viewed as less suspicious for money laundering concerns than $20 bill deposits. However, the 10 big slot players studied apparently were mostly.:

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It's all still completely random. Can you program in a auto-win code, like in Ocean's Thirteen. Maybe something all redditors could remember, like the konami code? But no, there's no way that would or even could happen these days. There's way too much oversight for anyone to try it. And like I've said before - no one working in the industry would ever even think about it. We all prefer our careers over prison. And to expand a bit - the background checks for people writing slot machine software and even back of house software such as the accounting systems can be pretty intense.

We make jokes about it, but some jurisdictions actually do a background check that's comparable to a government top secret clearance check. I used to work on the accounting integration systems for many casino's in CA and the front end kiosks used by staff. No background checks for anyone at our company. But that was in And maybe it's different for Indian casinos.

CA really only pays attention to GLI, and that's more of a suggestion than a requirement. Anyway, not surprised that you didn't have to do any background checks. Things are different in different areas. In a lot of areas, um, things are a bit fast and loose - those aren't areas where I'd be willing to gamble.

Could you kill two birds with one stone and get a Secret clearance at the same time? If they're gathering the information anyway, why not?

Sadly, the government doesn't work that way. But at least I know that if I ever need a top secret clearance, I can get it. In the late 90s there was a lot of research done to try to understand why people like playing slot machines. Most of that research was ignored Right now the big buzzword is Farmville.

So everyone in the industry is trying to understand how that works on a person and leverage it. Yeah, we're all a bit slow. Above my level, I don't know. I can't really say what they do or don't know. However, I do know that amongst my team, most of us have read at least one book dealing with the psychology of gaming. And thus we work towards meeting those goals.

Disclaimer Everyone at my level see's the future coming. So we're not worried about hooking players. We're most concerned with what we can do to make the experience fun for a player. And part of making something fun is to engage the player and reward them for playing. I spent a few months doing front end interfaces for casino games.

My take on it was that it's a unique culture. Lots of money thrown away rather than running a coherent company. No leadership, no communications or collaboration. Most everybody in the place was a sad old man with some sort of addiction. People came and went, often without titles This is Bob, he's the new Tim. Random trips and random showing people around. The company would pay for things you wouldn't expect, from oil changes to all the free power drinks and jerkey at work.

Yeah, there was a time to when just being in the business guaranteed profits. That's not so true today. I have no idea where you worked, but what you describe is in no way the norm. It kind of sounds like you were working with a company we know about I worked for U1 gaming in Montana. They make machines here and were just breaking in, in Nevada. The same guys made up Montana Video Lottery and another short lived company.

I left there with such a bad taste that I probably wouldn't even think about going back into casino games.

Anyway, a lot of companies are managed pretty poorly. It sounds like you ended up dealing with a crappy company. Not much I can do for you other than hope that you found a better place to work. I did, and considered myself lucky that I wasn't tied up in legal problems for years like others that worked there.

Two different sound guys ended up taking them to court over issues. I've made video games for a number of companies and this was the last. I now animate for scientific out reach and make interactive educational software and am much happier.

That's a pretty crappy company, but it's good to hear that you got out. Happy to hear that you're doing well now. I've heard that slot machines are often programmed to first figure out the amount a customer wins, and then displays an appropriate front end based on that. Rather than having actual random 'wheels'. Nope, that's completely false.

Every spin is independent of the next. Slot machines don't analyze your behavior - there's no reason to. I don't think you understood me correctly, or I might of written my question wrong.

I know each spin is independent of each other. My question was how an individual spin is logically programmed. Let me try again, with an example this time. Once this value is determined, the machine than displays the pretty picture that shows a win of that size.

So it determines you won 25 credits first, and then shows that you won that cause u had 3 lions or whatever. And you're correct as far as the individual spins goes. The machine determines and records a win or not before it presents it to the player. I think most slot players would be surprised to learn this. I imagine they are naively believing that they really were so close to winning a jackpot. Do you see any ethical issues with this? I think slots aren't fun but am okay with it, but wish more slot players understood this fact of how the game actually functions.

See my post above where I wanted to help someone that sounded like they have a real problem. I'm no more conflicted than loggers, oil rig workers, car designers, hair stylists, or tele-tubby actors. That's why I put Larry's name in quotes.

You should be ashamed of yourself trying to sully his good name. By making it appear as if he's wasting time in the internet when he could be working?

What kind of software dev process do you use where you work? Is it a 'hip and modern' agiley sort of process or more cowboy like? More specifically, do you unit test slots software? Anything else interesting or unusual in the process compared to other development jobs? Different manufacturers have different processes. I can't go into too much detail about ours, except that unit tests, functional test, and math verification tests are all extremely important to the process.

What would you say the best way to test random functions is? I asked in more detail at stackoverflow but never really got an answer I was happy with. If you're actually facing a real world scenario where this kind of thing becomes important, send me a private message - I'd be very interested in helping out and learning.

That's not really my department. But I have read the regs, and the requirements for physical security of the machines are impressive. They have to be able to stand up to some pretty severe abuse and keep operating, without being affected by external conditions. I'd say that physically, slot machines are far more secure than ATMs. There were a couple threads on reddit not too long ago from card counters that addressed these far better than I can.

There are a few. I can't remember any specifically - they're pretty rare and mostly nonexistent these days. And they would be display only. Yeah, everyone knows about them. Send me a private message if you want to discuss further. Have you been following any of the crazy casino busts in Alabama? For those of you outside of "Real sic America" the governor is on a holy crusade against casinos.

Yes, I have been. I try to keep up on any news that may affect the industry I'm in. Yeah, I'm a programmer, but it doesn't hurt to be aware of the wider implications of the world that might affect what I'm doing. I think I answered this above. And that doesn't count the database languages Hope she enjoys the job, and I hope it keeps her happy until she's retired and can sit back and watch other people do the job. Ive been told if a casino is not paying out enough based on regulations that at the end of certain time frame month, or 6 month, or 1 year that they will let a bunch of people win to even out the books.

Do they have any control over how many people win or not? That's news to me. I don't want to hurt their business, but reservation casinos are kind of a different world. All I'll say is that in a regulated environment like Vegas or Atlantic City, that would never happen. Same with slot machines. For reservation casinos , they have to give out at least X percentage of what they take in right?

This is what I was told , they have a minimum that they have to give out. I'm not going to comment on reservation casinos. Just keep in mind that they try to operate as a sovereign nation. I've done some research into them, but never written any. It's an entirely different market, with a lot of interesting twists. If you do something criminal, they just hold you in a back room until the police arrive and then turn you over to them.

I meant a mistake such as writing a unit test which doesn't actually test the right thing, and consequently introducing a bug which causes anomalous payouts.

Things like that might easily look malicious even if they are not. In my case I would probably get fired and gain a reputation pretty quickly that would mean I wouldn't be able to find a job in the industry again.

I know of at least two companies that had things like that happen. Both honored the win, paid out, and then had discussions with their insurance companies.

I don't know the fate of the programmer in either case - but in one of the two I'm fairly sure nothing bad happened, since it wasn't really caused by any one person's mistake. In practice, though, they'd rather get trouble makers off the property. So a belligerent drunk might get held down below if he's causing harm to other guests, but most likely they'll just call a cab and pawn the problem off onto the cab driver.

There are plenty of places in Vegas for non gamblers. Even in the major casinos, there are showrooms and restaurants, and concert venues, and plays, and etc etc etc. Out side of that, Vegas is a normal city. We have all the stuff most other cities have. Except a sports team. There is a while tourism and convention industry. I don't gamble and I still enjoy living and working here. A lot of people complain about a lack of culture and community, but it always seems like those people aren't actually getting out and trying to find it.

Plus I've always found Vegas to be a friendlier place than anywhere else I've lived - it definitely doesn't suffer from the Seattle Freeze. Also a great area for offroading, shooting, hiking, climbing, camping, and just about every other outdoor activity.

I don't exactly like living in an area where our entire economy is basically dependent on discretionary income. Tourist destinations are always slower to recover than the general economy. The big concern is Macau And I will give Goodman credit - he tried to expand the economy by encouraging manufacturing and high-tech businesses in the city. And there are a lot of small custom manufacturers here. It's not a bad place to set up shop.

And it's not a bad foundation for an economy, just have to save up to be able to wait out the lean times. Unfortunately, it looks like most major businesses here haven't done that. If you were going to go in to a casino and try to actually win some money, what would you look for as external signs to choose a machine?

If you have a casino nearby, you should look for the video poker machines and start reading through some video poker forums for tips. You won't win money, but you can get a lot of comps. If you're just an occasional visitor, I'd either get really good at poker or learn how to count blackjack.

If you're in an area with multiple casinos, the best you can really do on slot machines is to compare the payouts between two machines with the same game. Look for one that has higher payouts. That will give you a better chance, because the machine is set to a higher payback, but still won't guarantee anything. It's all still completely random.

Can you program in a auto-win code, like in Ocean's Thirteen. Maybe something all redditors could remember, like the konami code?

But no, there's no way that would or even could happen these days. There's way too much oversight for anyone to try it. And like I've said before - no one working in the industry would ever even think about it. We all prefer our careers over prison. And to expand a bit - the background checks for people writing slot machine software and even back of house software such as the accounting systems can be pretty intense. We make jokes about it, but some jurisdictions actually do a background check that's comparable to a government top secret clearance check.

I used to work on the accounting integration systems for many casino's in CA and the front end kiosks used by staff. No background checks for anyone at our company. But that was in And maybe it's different for Indian casinos. CA really only pays attention to GLI, and that's more of a suggestion than a requirement.

Anyway, not surprised that you didn't have to do any background checks. Things are different in different areas.

In a lot of areas, um, things are a bit fast and loose - those aren't areas where I'd be willing to gamble. Could you kill two birds with one stone and get a Secret clearance at the same time?

If they're gathering the information anyway, why not? Sadly, the government doesn't work that way. But at least I know that if I ever need a top secret clearance, I can get it. In the late 90s there was a lot of research done to try to understand why people like playing slot machines. Most of that research was ignored Right now the big buzzword is Farmville. So everyone in the industry is trying to understand how that works on a person and leverage it.

Yeah, we're all a bit slow. Above my level, I don't know. I can't really say what they do or don't know. However, I do know that amongst my team, most of us have read at least one book dealing with the psychology of gaming.

And thus we work towards meeting those goals. Disclaimer Everyone at my level see's the future coming. So we're not worried about hooking players. We're most concerned with what we can do to make the experience fun for a player. And part of making something fun is to engage the player and reward them for playing.

I spent a few months doing front end interfaces for casino games. My take on it was that it's a unique culture. Lots of money thrown away rather than running a coherent company. No leadership, no communications or collaboration. Most everybody in the place was a sad old man with some sort of addiction.

People came and went, often without titles This is Bob, he's the new Tim. Random trips and random showing people around. The company would pay for things you wouldn't expect, from oil changes to all the free power drinks and jerkey at work. Yeah, there was a time to when just being in the business guaranteed profits. That's not so true today.

I have no idea where you worked, but what you describe is in no way the norm. It kind of sounds like you were working with a company we know about I worked for U1 gaming in Montana.

They make machines here and were just breaking in, in Nevada. The same guys made up Montana Video Lottery and another short lived company. I left there with such a bad taste that I probably wouldn't even think about going back into casino games.

Anyway, a lot of companies are managed pretty poorly. It sounds like you ended up dealing with a crappy company. Not much I can do for you other than hope that you found a better place to work. I did, and considered myself lucky that I wasn't tied up in legal problems for years like others that worked there.

Two different sound guys ended up taking them to court over issues. I've made video games for a number of companies and this was the last. I now animate for scientific out reach and make interactive educational software and am much happier. That's a pretty crappy company, but it's good to hear that you got out. Happy to hear that you're doing well now. I've heard that slot machines are often programmed to first figure out the amount a customer wins, and then displays an appropriate front end based on that.

Rather than having actual random 'wheels'. Nope, that's completely false. Every spin is independent of the next. Slot machines don't analyze your behavior - there's no reason to. I don't think you understood me correctly, or I might of written my question wrong.

I know each spin is independent of each other. My question was how an individual spin is logically programmed. Let me try again, with an example this time. Once this value is determined, the machine than displays the pretty picture that shows a win of that size. So it determines you won 25 credits first, and then shows that you won that cause u had 3 lions or whatever.

And you're correct as far as the individual spins goes. The machine determines and records a win or not before it presents it to the player. I think most slot players would be surprised to learn this.

I imagine they are naively believing that they really were so close to winning a jackpot. Do you see any ethical issues with this? I think slots aren't fun but am okay with it, but wish more slot players understood this fact of how the game actually functions. See my post above where I wanted to help someone that sounded like they have a real problem.

I'm no more conflicted than loggers, oil rig workers, car designers, hair stylists, or tele-tubby actors.

That's why I put Larry's name in quotes. You should be ashamed of yourself trying to sully his good name. By making it appear as if he's wasting time in the internet when he could be working? What kind of software dev process do you use where you work? Is it a 'hip and modern' agiley sort of process or more cowboy like? More specifically, do you unit test slots software? Anything else interesting or unusual in the process compared to other development jobs? Different manufacturers have different processes.

I can't go into too much detail about ours, except that unit tests, functional test, and math verification tests are all extremely important to the process. What would you say the best way to test random functions is? I asked in more detail at stackoverflow but never really got an answer I was happy with.

If you're actually facing a real world scenario where this kind of thing becomes important, send me a private message - I'd be very interested in helping out and learning. That's not really my department. But I have read the regs, and the requirements for physical security of the machines are impressive. They have to be able to stand up to some pretty severe abuse and keep operating, without being affected by external conditions.

I'd say that physically, slot machines are far more secure than ATMs. There were a couple threads on reddit not too long ago from card counters that addressed these far better than I can. There are a few. I can't remember any specifically - they're pretty rare and mostly nonexistent these days. And they would be display only. Yeah, everyone knows about them. Send me a private message if you want to discuss further.

Have you been following any of the crazy casino busts in Alabama? For those of you outside of "Real sic America" the governor is on a holy crusade against casinos. Yes, I have been.

I try to keep up on any news that may affect the industry I'm in. Yeah, I'm a programmer, but it doesn't hurt to be aware of the wider implications of the world that might affect what I'm doing. I think I answered this above. And that doesn't count the database languages Hope she enjoys the job, and I hope it keeps her happy until she's retired and can sit back and watch other people do the job.

Ive been told if a casino is not paying out enough based on regulations that at the end of certain time frame month, or 6 month, or 1 year that they will let a bunch of people win to even out the books. Do they have any control over how many people win or not? That's news to me. I don't want to hurt their business, but reservation casinos are kind of a different world.

All I'll say is that in a regulated environment like Vegas or Atlantic City, that would never happen. Same with slot machines. For reservation casinos , they have to give out at least X percentage of what they take in right? This is what I was told , they have a minimum that they have to give out.

I'm not going to comment on reservation casinos. Just keep in mind that they try to operate as a sovereign nation. I've done some research into them, but never written any. It's an entirely different market, with a lot of interesting twists.

I was watching a documentary once about gambling and the use of computers to generate random numbers. The program went into great depths into whether a not a computer could be random, because at the end of the day computers work on patterns. My question to you is, can a computer generate a completely random number? Or does it create a number by utilising a complex algorithm that makes it look random, but is essentially following a complex pattern? That's a difficult question to answer, since we're starting to get into some areas of high theory A computer can generate a truly random number.

If done correctly, a random number generator can be truly random. In practicality, part of that randomness relies on the player. People are pretty random, so why not use them for a seed? I hadn't thought about it in this way before. Huzzah for exploiting the randomness of people I say! Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy. By having a Reddit account, you can subscribe, vote, and comment on all your favorite Reddit content.

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The number of paylines differs from slot to slot. This can range from one to dozens of paylines. One rule for the casino and one rule for me playing it. The rule for me playing is that I will get a heck of a lot more enjoyment playing the machine than what it will cost, and so I will win every time no matter what I spend. Now you, on the other hand, apparently have some other kind of rule that seems impossible but I really hope is true. I would advise you to pick up slot with highest RTP return to player rate.

It determines expected value for player. This page may be out of date. Save your draft before refreshing this page. Submit any pending changes before refreshing this page.

Ask New Question Sign In. What is the game rule of a casino slot machine? Slots game rules Slots have been popular in casinos for many years. Royal Panda banner Twin Spin Play slots now at Royal Panda Aim of the game The main aim when playing a slot it to create winning combinations along one of the paylines. Paylines To increase your chances of winning, you can bet your money on multiple paylines.

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Compare to another machine with the exact same game - if the percentage is set higher, the pays will be higher. And to respond to the point I missed earlier - downtown and off-strip casinos often do have better paybacks. But I can't say anything definitive, since it would be a lot of work, and I'm not up for that.

How is the random number generation done? Is something like random. I'd have to see their source code to answer definitively, but I can guess that the answer is no. Most manufacturers actually have people who's sole job is to make sure the RNG random number generator truly is random. I'd be willing to bet that far more work has been put into slot machine RNGs than random.

If a manufacturer ever ended up with an RNG that was only pseudo-random, the consequences would be pretty bad for everyone involved. It looks like random. ORG have been evaluated by eCOGRA, which is is a non-profit regulatory body that acts as the independent standards authority of the online gaming industry.

For a typical gambling site, eCOGRA will oversee many aspects of its operation, including financial aspects, such as payout percentages. ORG consistently produced random numbers across scaling intervals and issued a certificate with their conclusion: They don't oversee any casinos or lotteries.

But this is the first time I've ever heard of them, and I'd be willing to bet that almost no one else in the land based gaming industry has heard of them.

Which, again, isn't to say that they aren't honest and legit, but reading through their own website A bit non-specific about everything. Contrast that with the NGCB website, which publishes their very specific requirements for anyone to read. Well, like I said, they may be legit. I certainly don't want to disparage their business model. But it's interesting that no one in the industry seems to recognize them.

I guess the part I really take issue with is that their requirements and procedures are so vague. Look at NGCB regs for examples of how things should work. They publish their procedures and requirements for any and everyone to see - and those are what us in the industry must adhere to. And sorry for being a bit vague - I can't really release details about any specific implementation. How un-vague can you get?

Is there a base seed eg time like 'normal' random number generators, does it use the last number generated, etc. Even the seed is pretty complex, specifically to avoid ever being duplicated. Repetition may occur, but it must be a natural occurrence. And it's extremely rare. So the repetition that you're talking about can occur, but can never be repeated. I still think Austin's point stands. Have your RNG spit out an infinite string of numbers.

Surely there will be a sequence of 1 billion sevens in a row, eventually. And surely this sequence, given that the data is infinite, will be repeated. I'm not going to dispute that.

I'm talking about practicality, though. But even if that sequence is repeated, it would be so rare that no one would notice. In the rng that I use there is a base seed.

The number generated from the seed rotates every 10 milliseconds automatically and rotates when you ask for a number. Every time a game is played the rng is reseeded. But I was under the impression that a computer can only produce pseudo-random numbers, unless some naturally random seed is used.

Do your RNGs use physical characteristics are or are they in software in which case they cant be truly random, only extremely pseudo-random? I haven't looked at the code, but it has been certified by every gaming board worldwide and everyone seems to be okay with software randomness. Keep in mind that to keep the odds "true", it doesn't really need to be RANDOM, it just needs to be consistent that the "hit" only comes up 1 time in x. Do you believe this was possible?

I will have to read the book before I can really say whether it's credible or not. I certainly won't dispute it until I read up on what methods they used. So it's not outside the realm of possibility that they exploited that part of the machine.

I would be amazed if that happened past about or so. One of the machines had a simple bit LFSR, which was trivial to crack. The other used 2 bit LFSR's added together, but they only iterated one of them before each deal, which cryptographically weakens it to basically a bit RNG.

Some time in the 90's they switched to 3 bit RNG's, properly iterated. This one proved impossible to attack, at least with the methods these guys were using at the time. One of the reasons Mitnick described for this was that the numbers could not be truly random.

If that were the case, there could be 10 jackpots in a row. They needed to be statistically predictable so casino owners wouldn't be open to too much downside. Well, again, that would have had to have been in the very early days of electronic slot machines.

These days machines and software are run through literally millions of test runs before they're even submitted to regulatory agencies for approval. Any kind of pattern would get detected fairly early on. There's a surprisingly large amount of effort that goes into making sure that random is really random.

The industry and the governing agencies have a vested interest in making sure that slot machines are truly random. Also, for what it's worth, I also work for a major gaming company, and this is surprising to almost everyone , our RNG is software.

And that one core piece of software could destroy your company if it was found to be predictable. There's a reason the RNG gets a lot of attention and oversight. Are slots and other casino systems all networked up in a way that allows casino management to control them in real time?

Or what can they control? It depends on the casino. The most modern casinos can load a new game and pay table onto a machine remotely. They cannot, however, interrupt a player. So if the machine is occupied, and they want to change the game, they have to wait until the player has finished and the machine has become idle. And according to what I read, the machine has to display that they are making changes.

In your experience, is this true? It would be a bad thing if changes are made to the machine without the player being alerted. From what I've seen, though, when a machine is being reconfigured it will go into maintenance mode. So it ends up being pretty obviously unavailable for play. I occasionally play video poker. On the Jacks or Better game I play, if you get a pair of Jacks or higher it gives you the option to double or nothing.

With this you are given one "random" card, with 4 face down cards. You have to choose one of the face down cards, and if it is higher than the face up card, you double the win. But what I have always wondered, is if those 4 face down cards are predetermined before I select one of them. Sometimes it seems way too more than a coincidence that the 3 I need to beat, I don't because I hit a 2.

Or something along those lines. I've haven't personally worked on the software for video poker, only slots. But I have talked to some of those guys and have looked at it a bit. And read the regulations and guidelines My understanding is that in video poker, because it's dealing from a deck, those four cards should be determined and set before the backs are presented to you. So your choice of cards should really be among 4 predetermined cards.

After you select a card, does the machine reveal the other three? I've never played this variant. As far as video poker goes, the machine is playing no different than a physical dealer would. The payback percentage is set by changing the amount awarded for any particular hand. So if you spend a while learning about the different games, you can tell which machines are set to a higher payback by looking at the pay table.

Good to know, thanks. Yes it shows the remaining cards afterwards, but I often wonder if all of them were predetermined, or if they were just fucking with me. The other day I burned through 20 bucks on there. Luckily I noticed the machine next to me, someone had walked away with 1 25cent credit left in it, and I ran that back up to 40 bucks.

Okay, if it shows the remaining cards afterwards, then they were placed and your choice affected the outcome.

If the cards were NOT shown, then your choice didn't affect the outcome. This comes in to play most often during slot machine bonus rounds.

And they were fucking with you. Sounds like you've got optimal play memorized. Hope you've got a club card so you're getting comped on amount bet.

Try to find a place that comps on amount bet, rather than coin in. Man if I ever found any evidence of them doing that, I would have to get their license taken away I don't particular mind that the house always win, but cheating is another thing. It's not cheating, it's just that your bonus would have been predetermined, and picking between different items on screen is really just eye candy. There's absolutely no way a casino would use a machine that cheats, and there's no way a manufacturer would sell a machine that cheats.

Both companies know that it would basically shut them down permanently if it happened. To what extent has your programming for players' clubs involved card counters or other advantage players? Casinos really take card counting personally, but they often forget to wipe out the comps that card counters have earned. Is this an issue you have worked on? Do you deal with issues having to do with comps e. Most casinos use pit bosses to identify counters.

Once they're identified, they're just flagged in the back end system. There are a couple IAMAs here from counters and it didn't sound like they would try to use club cards while playing.

Are you asking about points earned based on play, or about comps given? It looks like you're asking about comps given. If so, well, once a casino gives something to a player, they can't take it back. Doesn't matter if it's a free meal, a tshirt, a car, or a small pacific island. Sounds like you guys were pretty on top of the whole counter issue.

Makes sense the way you lay it out. Can't imagine a counter would last too long there. Environment - depends on the department. Dress code - relaxed tshirt and jeans.

Work culture - depends on the project. How much do you make? How many years of software development do you have?

Other sectors you've worked in? What kinds of bugs can arise from your systems? Besides tasks surrounding RNG, what exactly is there to do? Do you write software for new machines? Upgrades for old machines? It seems like once the software goes thru vigorous testing it's ready to go live and the job is done, what more is there to do?

Can you reuse bits and pieces from other systems? You want my earnings? Not going to say. As far as I know, all of us make a decent wage, but nothing spectacular. OS and IDE depends on the project. For what it's worth, I prefer Python and Django.

And I hate Java. Ultimately, they're all just tools - we do the best with whatever environment we have to use. There isn't really an upgrade path for software. If a new version is released, the earlier software on the machine is wiped out and overwritten completely.

Currently I write software for undisclosed projects. The job is never done. We are always looking for new ways to engage players and make sure that they enjoy their time on our machines. I have an idea. Make the machine pay less money more often.

When I play, much like you I don't play to win because I know the odds. I play for the free alcohol. You're looking for a low volatility game. There are a couple of video poker forums where you can read up on which variants have the highest payback percentage. And yeah, your point about length of play is a good one. There's been a lot of thought about that in the industry lately.

Lately being the last 10 years It seems like lately manufacturers are starting to understand this again and have started putting more emphasis on fun rather than simply extracting as much cash from a player as quickly as possible. I'm a software engineer - how did you get a job writing this software? It's always seemed pretty interesting, which companies would I need to apply to?

First off - you must have a clean criminal record. It sucks, but there's no way around it. I got the job because I was a SQL guru and fit well into the exact position they were looking for. Since then I've grown into more areas and responsibilities. You should apply to all of the slot manufacturers if you want to write code for games. You should apply to all of the casinos if you want a job working on apps and backend software.

Your best bet is to find a good recruiter in Vegas. They will know the industry and where you'd be best placed. Send me a private message and I'll see if I can recommend a recruiter. I do that so I can better understand what our competition is up to. And most importantly, I do it so I can see things from a player's perspective. Maybe I sidestepped your real question I don't gamble, since I know the odds.

But I do play any and all machines just so I keep in touch. I lose a lot of my own money, but I figure it's worth it to really see things from the perspective of a player. Thank you for that. I'm going to tell my mother-in-law about this comment, since she's gambling away her grandchildren's inheritance.

I would encourage you to look into gambling addiction resources so that you can present her with some reasonable discussion, rather than a blunt attack on her lifestyle been through this before.

For instance, any result of a wager must be physically written to disk and guaranteed not to be cached in the drive's cache before the result can be displayed to the player. You can look at the NGCB website for the specific regulations. But basically, the slot machine must never ever lose information about the previous 30 I think 30, it's been a while since I read the regs wagers and outcomes.

A significant amount of the engineering that goes into a slot machine is there specifically to make sure it cannot cheat a player out of a valid win. Also, logging is extremely important. According to the regs, the machine must be able to recall everything about those past 30 games. So if there's a dispute, a regulatory agent can walk up to the machine, plug in a key, and play back everything that happened on the machine, including every button or screen press the player made, all RNG results, and more.

Which jurisdictions do you write code for? The logging I have to do isn't nearly so in depth. I have to recall the last 10 game outcomes, each of which has to be able to display 50 subgame outcomes, but that's it. We have meters and things we record but there's very little data involved in an actual game record and it's almost all tied to the game result.

Did you ever write some super secret code into the software that only you knew? And in such a way that you can win money every time, using your secret method? Nope, never even considered it. The only person that did that back in the 80s, I think is currently in prison. The industry doesn't attract the kind of people who would considering doing so. Kind of boring - no intrigue or excitement. But you could if you wanted to right?

And if so, is it possible to bury the code so deep that no one will know? The guy who did it in the 80s was able to do so because back then a machine could be developed by a single person. Those days are gone. These days the software is complex enough and most manufacturers are paranoid enough such that there are at least two people who see and understand every bit of code that goes into any machine. The chance of both people and a few others in the process risking serious prison time is pretty much zero.

Ron Harris did it in the 90's and he's out of prison now. What I don't get is, he was smart enough to do all this, then he bet a run on Keno, which is statistically basically impossible, which led to his arrest.

The silly thing is, Keno pays off full for a run, so a run is for idiots only. That's the guy I've been alluding to for a while. Forgot that it was in the 90s - I'd thought it was the late 80s. I can't think of any mistakes you could make that would lose a casino money. Most mistakes tend to fall in their favor. And if you look at other threads on reddit from people that work in casinos, there's really no threat of violence from a casino. If you abuse the casino, they just ask you to leave.

If you do something criminal, they just hold you in a back room until the police arrive and then turn you over to them. I meant a mistake such as writing a unit test which doesn't actually test the right thing, and consequently introducing a bug which causes anomalous payouts. Things like that might easily look malicious even if they are not. In my case I would probably get fired and gain a reputation pretty quickly that would mean I wouldn't be able to find a job in the industry again.

I know of at least two companies that had things like that happen. Both honored the win, paid out, and then had discussions with their insurance companies. I don't know the fate of the programmer in either case - but in one of the two I'm fairly sure nothing bad happened, since it wasn't really caused by any one person's mistake. In practice, though, they'd rather get trouble makers off the property.

So a belligerent drunk might get held down below if he's causing harm to other guests, but most likely they'll just call a cab and pawn the problem off onto the cab driver. There are plenty of places in Vegas for non gamblers. Even in the major casinos, there are showrooms and restaurants, and concert venues, and plays, and etc etc etc.

Out side of that, Vegas is a normal city. We have all the stuff most other cities have. Except a sports team. There is a while tourism and convention industry. I don't gamble and I still enjoy living and working here. A lot of people complain about a lack of culture and community, but it always seems like those people aren't actually getting out and trying to find it. Plus I've always found Vegas to be a friendlier place than anywhere else I've lived - it definitely doesn't suffer from the Seattle Freeze.

Also a great area for offroading, shooting, hiking, climbing, camping, and just about every other outdoor activity. I don't exactly like living in an area where our entire economy is basically dependent on discretionary income.

Tourist destinations are always slower to recover than the general economy. The big concern is Macau And I will give Goodman credit - he tried to expand the economy by encouraging manufacturing and high-tech businesses in the city. And there are a lot of small custom manufacturers here. It's not a bad place to set up shop. And it's not a bad foundation for an economy, just have to save up to be able to wait out the lean times.

Unfortunately, it looks like most major businesses here haven't done that. If you were going to go in to a casino and try to actually win some money, what would you look for as external signs to choose a machine? If you have a casino nearby, you should look for the video poker machines and start reading through some video poker forums for tips. You won't win money, but you can get a lot of comps.

If you're just an occasional visitor, I'd either get really good at poker or learn how to count blackjack. If you're in an area with multiple casinos, the best you can really do on slot machines is to compare the payouts between two machines with the same game. Look for one that has higher payouts. That will give you a better chance, because the machine is set to a higher payback, but still won't guarantee anything. It's all still completely random.

Can you program in a auto-win code, like in Ocean's Thirteen. Maybe something all redditors could remember, like the konami code?

But no, there's no way that would or even could happen these days. There's way too much oversight for anyone to try it. And like I've said before - no one working in the industry would ever even think about it. We all prefer our careers over prison. And to expand a bit - the background checks for people writing slot machine software and even back of house software such as the accounting systems can be pretty intense.

We make jokes about it, but some jurisdictions actually do a background check that's comparable to a government top secret clearance check. I used to work on the accounting integration systems for many casino's in CA and the front end kiosks used by staff. No background checks for anyone at our company. But that was in And maybe it's different for Indian casinos.

CA really only pays attention to GLI, and that's more of a suggestion than a requirement. Anyway, not surprised that you didn't have to do any background checks. Things are different in different areas. In a lot of areas, um, things are a bit fast and loose - those aren't areas where I'd be willing to gamble. Could you kill two birds with one stone and get a Secret clearance at the same time? If they're gathering the information anyway, why not? Sadly, the government doesn't work that way.

But at least I know that if I ever need a top secret clearance, I can get it. In the late 90s there was a lot of research done to try to understand why people like playing slot machines. Most of that research was ignored Right now the big buzzword is Farmville.

So everyone in the industry is trying to understand how that works on a person and leverage it. Yeah, we're all a bit slow. Above my level, I don't know. I can't really say what they do or don't know. However, I do know that amongst my team, most of us have read at least one book dealing with the psychology of gaming. And thus we work towards meeting those goals. Disclaimer Everyone at my level see's the future coming. So we're not worried about hooking players. We're most concerned with what we can do to make the experience fun for a player.

And part of making something fun is to engage the player and reward them for playing. I spent a few months doing front end interfaces for casino games. My take on it was that it's a unique culture. Lots of money thrown away rather than running a coherent company. No leadership, no communications or collaboration. Most everybody in the place was a sad old man with some sort of addiction. People came and went, often without titles This is Bob, he's the new Tim.

Random trips and random showing people around. The company would pay for things you wouldn't expect, from oil changes to all the free power drinks and jerkey at work. Yeah, there was a time to when just being in the business guaranteed profits. That's not so true today. I have no idea where you worked, but what you describe is in no way the norm. It kind of sounds like you were working with a company we know about I worked for U1 gaming in Montana.

They make machines here and were just breaking in, in Nevada. The same guys made up Montana Video Lottery and another short lived company. I left there with such a bad taste that I probably wouldn't even think about going back into casino games.

And, usually, they're being allowed to do this. That seems a little troubling, but it can get a bit more complex, as in one case a few years ago, where a guy used a slot machine that had faulty software -- and was arrested for doing so. Now, once he realizes this is happening, perhaps you can consider that fraud, but it does seem a bit dangerous to blame the guy for what was really a software glitch by the casino or slot machine vendor.

The latest such case, found via Slashdot , might not be quite as troubling. In this case, a guy more or less figured out a software glitch in a variety of slot machines that would enable a series of button presses that would lead to larger awards, and then he used that to win a lot of money.

Now, I can definitely see the case for fraud here and the guy has now been arrested. He didn't just spot a machine with a glitch, but he then actively exploited that glitch, knowing it was a glitch, and took steps to enable that glitch on various machines to make it work, he apparently had to have casino staff change some settings on the machines, which they would do since he was a "high roller.

However, there is still something worrying about charging someone for a crime for doing what a computer system allows them to do. He didn't technically hack the system -- he just figured out a bug in the software and used that to his advantage. There is at least some gray area, concerning whether or not some of the liability should fall back on the maker of the slot machine for leaving such a glitch in their software. If you liked this post, you may also be interested in Anonymous Coward , 7 Jan 6: Crime isn't about what is possible, it is about intent.

His intent was to defraud the casino. It wasn't "oops" and there is a jackpot, it is all about taking advantage of a weak spot and stealing the money. By your logic, it would be fine to steal from the cash register at a store if they didn't close the cash drawer completely, because that isn't stealing, that is just taking advantage of a drawer closing glitch.

Sorry, but your logic is a fail on this one, completely. Hulser profile , 7 Jan 6: I think you're making the mistake of looking at this from purely binary viewpoint. Go back and read the last sentence of Mike's post. He suggested that the software manufacturers should bear "some" responsibility. And to this, I agree. Not all, but some. To use your example, let's say that a cash register manufacturer makes a faulty batch where the cash drawer will not close properly and then open up by itself, perhaps after the cashier has walked away.

A "drawer closing glitch". The defect is found after a pattern of lost money is investigated. You're telling me that the situation is so black and white that you wouldn't see the manufacturer bearing at least some of the responsibility for the thefts?

Jan Breens profile , 7 Jan 6: People may choose not to buy their faulty products, or the manufacturer should reimburse their customers for all those seriously flawed cash registers. However saying their are implicated in any liability, however small implies they are implicated theft because someone stole from their register while it shouldn't have been open is going too far in my mind. Hulser profile , 7 Jan 7: First you say that the manufacturers should reimburse their customers -- which would indicate that they are responsible to some measure -- but then you say that are not "implicated" or have any "liability" -- which would indicate that they are not responsible.

So, which is it? Are you making some kind of semantic distinction between "responsible" and "liable"? The manufacture isn't "implicated" or have any "liability" at all. Nor are they even obligated to replace the faulty units.

Now it would be bad customer service not to fix the problem with the units in question and if they don't other companies may not want to buy from them in the future. But none of this implies the manufacture bears any responsibility in the theft that has taken place. Hulser profile , 7 Jan 8: I think it does. But I'm mostly referring to a moral obligation, not necessarilly a legal one.

Is the manufacturer legally responsible for, at least in part, the lost money? I don't know, but probably not. But if you just ask the specific question "is the manufacturer partly responsible? In the hypothetical case of the cashier manufacturer and the real case of the slot machine manufacturer. Anonymous Coward , 7 Jan 8: Therefore they should be expected to be responsible for the amount of the product not the amount of the crime. It is the responsibility of the casino to verify the quality of the purchased product before putting it to use.

I have to say that I believe the first guy who got 9 free dollars for ever dollar put in the machine should not have been arrested, however the "high roller" is definitely "hacking" the system by forcing the machine to function in a way that would allow him a better return on his odds. I have to say that I believe the first guy who got 9 free dollars for ever dollar put in the machine should not have been arrested I agree.

How was he to know it wasn't the expected behaviour of the machine? It's not his responsibility to ensure the machine is behaving sanely, just to put his money in and maybe get some out. Jason , 7 Jan 8: Yeah, that doesn't track with the basic tenets of liability for negligence. If you can show someone had a duty to perform, failed to perform that duty, and that actual damages were proximately caused by that failure, then that would show liability for negligence.

Greevar profile , 7 Jan 8: Let's put it this way. A person using one of those "self-checkouts", that are popular at the larger stores, finds a glitch. By accident, the user discovers that the machine gives out more change than it should when you pay in multiples of 6.

Now knowing this, the user takes advantage of the glitch. These machines have been authorized by the owners of the store to dispense transactions as it is programmed. The customer is merely interacting with the machine as it is programmed.

The correct thing to do would be to ban the person from the store as is their right , then report the glitch to correct it, and pursue any reparations owed. It would be difficult to prove intent to defraud the store unless the security video showed this person repeatedly using the checkout without leaving the store. I think it would be hard to do the same in the case of the casino due to the fact that many people will switch to different slot machines frequently.

Using a machine glitch to beat a slot game is no different, in my mind, than counting cards. They don't like it, but you didn't actually break the law. They should kick you out and fix the flaw instead. Anonymous Coward , 7 Jan 9: That person using the self checkouts would still be breaking the law. As soon as they realize that they are getting too much change or maybe all of their money back, whatever , and continue to do it, they have the intent required by law to be charged with fraud.

Actually, it is very different. On the machine, you are doing something to steal money with certainty. Card counting is a skill, and is still not entirely certain. It is one of the reasons that most casinos play blackjack with multiple decks usually 5 or more and cut at least 1 pack up for the stop card.

That all but entirely removes the card count benefit, unless a significant number of faces and aces come up very early in the shoe. Otherwise, the card count advantage is miniscule. You are confusing outright fraud with attempting to gain an advantage. One is a game of change, one is no chance at all, it's a certain payout. Phillip Vector profile , 7 Jan 3: Counting cards is not illegal. Michial Thompson , 7 Jan 7: In the latter case: If not legal theft and least moral theft.

His continued actions beyond the first time maybe a second to confirm it he realized that it was not working properly constitutes THEFT. Now if that glitch required ANY action other than simply inserting the coin to cause the error to occur then there should be no legal question as to it being theft or not. If it was simply inserting the coin I can see some gray area, but from a simply moral stand point it is still theft.

Whether the term "theft" applies in either of the cases is irrelevent to the point of whether the slot machine manufacture bears at least some of the responsiblity.

The other poster, Jan Breens, may be viewing this in terms of legal liability, but Mike didn't use that term. He just suggested that the manufacturer may be partly "responsible". One one side, I think that, if you intentionally "trick" a slot machine to give you more of a payout than you know you deserve, you should be punished according to the law.

You knew it was wrong, but did it anyway. That's very clear in my mind. But if you had to assign some subjective "responsiblity percentage" to the manufacturer for the overall problem, shouldn't that be something greater than 0? In other words, regardless of whether the manufacturer is legally liable to provide reimbursement, can't you at least say that their programming of the machine was part of the chain of events which directly led to the theft and therefore bears some moral responsibility?

Or can a company just put out flawed products and have no responsibility at all? Michial Thompson , 7 Jan 9: WOW, I find it amazing how clueless some readers are My first statement WAS: Hulser profile , 7 Jan Based on the above, it sounds like our thoughts on this topic are close, so why the ad hominem attacks?

Have you considered the possibility that the person you're talking to may not actually be "clueless" or "stupid", but there may just be a simple misunderstanding between two people? Your analogy makes no sense. It would make more sense if there was a sign on the cash register that said "Please take any money from this while its open!

Ah, but the slot machines don't say "Use my software bugs to take more money than I would normally give out" now do they? Anonymous Coward , 7 Jan 7: Of course, but a slot machine is a totally different scenario than a cash register. It's more like being able to read what a lottery ticket says before you buy it the scratch off kind. Maybe its fraud, maybe its not, I don't know.

I'm on the fence here. I mean, they should be responsible for their own software, not the end user, right? Mike profile , 7 Jan 7: Actually I think they do. Casino's actively encourage people to think they can come out ahead of a slot machine, and people think they're doing that all the time. That' why some people get upset if someone takes their "warmed up slot", or why they'll wager more after they see certain sequences. I really don't think a player should be penalized because they actually discover a way that works.

Jason , 7 Jan 9: You can't arbitrarily assign a duty to this guy that he doesn't have. It is not his obligation to expect to lose and report it as wrong when he doesn't. As for the 10 for 1 input, it's not at all unreasonable for him to figure that this is a promotional scheme functioning as intended by the casino. Many casinos offer free money to play, and an automated 10 for 1 would be a great way to make that more efficient. Then you simply set the odds to account for this, but start with some friendlier promotional odds that reel in the players.

Later they're still psyched up about getting the 10 for 1 promo, and the adjusted odds just begin to feel like maybe their luck has run out, but hey who cares if I'm getting to play 10 bucks for one. It's perfectly natural for people to assume that Casinos do this sort of thing all the time. Why would he have even doubted this was the case? The Groove Tiger profile , 7 Jan 6: The sad part is that Mike is pretty much saying that the guy did commit fraud on the casino.

So to disagree with him and "fail" him, you create a strawman where Imaginary Mike says it should be fine to steal from a casino. Now that is what I call a "logic fail", and it's documented, to boot. Most crimes have both a mens rea intent and a mens acta action requirement. Both must be present for the crime to be complete. Mens rea is something altogether different than conspiracy. Mens rea could be as simple as accidentally walking out of a grocery store with a cartful of unpaid groceries versus going to the store with the purpose of stealing the groceries and actually shoplifting them.

In both cases the acts are identical, but if you can demonstrate the lack of intent such as you were caught while on the way back into the store with your checkbook and pen in hand with a befuddled and apologetic lookk on your face , then there was in fact no crime even though the actions were identical.

Basic murder is a good example. You have to have both the act and the intent to kill in order to be guilty of murder. Conspiracy doesn't enter into it. How can that be true for manslaughter? You can have negligence that is criminal. A person acts negligently when he should have been aware of a substantial and unjustifiable risk that a certain result will occur because of his conduct.

The idea is that even though a negligent person is unaware of the risk and therefore does not have a "criminal mind," the law will impute that awareness to him because a reasonable person would have been so aware.

Generally, crime isn't about intent, it's about actions. Crimes are about both intent and action. Intent is the "mens rea," and action is the "actus reus.

Rob , 7 Jan 8: I could see it could be fraud if he himself put the bug or glitch in the machine. However if he's just pressing buttons, he's not really operating it outside it's intended use.

He's just better at it than most button pushers. Kind of like baseball players exploiting the "hit it hard" glitch in a bat that I don't know about. Cowardly Anon , 7 Jan 8: No, his intent wasn't to defraud the casino, it was to win. Casinos are all about that allure of winning and they are run on it. Gamblers do what they do to win money. He played the game and won money. Was it his fault there was a bug in the system the casino used?

So why is it his fault for using that fault to win money. Hell, by him asking the casino staff to modify the machines to his advantage and them doing it shows that he wasn't exploiting anything but was playing the game.

And going to your analogy, it is flawed. If the cash register miscalculated the change back in your favor and the attendant gave it to you and you noticed, would you comment? Very few people would, but if you don't are you trying to defraud the store? DJ profile , 7 Jan 9: It wasn't "oops" and there is a jackpot Anonymous Coward , 7 Jan All it proves is that even when presented with the obvious, TD soft peddles it and at best suggests it is "more reasonable". The argument is why you even start down this road.

It is clear that this guy continued to use a defect in the system to defraud the casinos of money, and apparently even took steps to assure that the circumstances were right for it to occur.

There is no "more reasonable" here, just fraud. Arguing any other people is meaningless, because the illegal act still occurs. Now, as a matter of contract law, might the machine maker have some sort of liability issue to the casino for the malfunctioning machine?

It would depend on how that malfunction occurred. If it was a setup or operations issue, the answer would be no. If there was a clear bug in the software that happened regardless of the steps taken by the casino, then probably yes.

But there is no direct liability connection between the player and the machine maker. Each of those is a separate issue, no one ball of wax. ECA profile , 7 Jan Small compact and easy to service. If you knew a way to make your car work better, would you do it? Anonymous Coward , 8 Sep Tough shit , dont think casinos give you your money back if it was going the other way! Anonymous Coward , 13 Jan 1: Right is right and wrong is wrong. As an aside, all slot machines in today should have something on them saying "Malfunction voids all pays and plays," which saves the casino from being taken advantage of.

For the state in which I work, all slot machines go to GLI for independent testing. The people who test the machines are absolutely brilliantly minded people, but even they can't catch everything. There are also errors that can be made by the slot techs. There is quite a bit to optioning a machines, and this differs from manufacturer to manufacturer. Then, factor in different printers, bill validators, and other components and it becomes increasingly more difficult to avoid all errors.

Setting up the currency wrong, could result a multi-million dollar error for the casino. This has been proven in the past by slot technicians who incorrectly setup a machine for caribbean currency instead of USD.

This results in each credit a player puts into the machine, it is automatically multiplied by a variable based on the currency setting. Thing such as bill testing a machine also prevents this from occurring. Maybe a little off topic, but just some information for you all. Annonymous , 22 Jul 7: Yes maybe "he's logic" is wrong I'm not saying it is but you are only adding your little part that it could be considered stealing, But in fact no, no it is not.

Kingster profile , 7 Jan 6: A quick google brings up this: A person commits the offense of criminal use of a computer if, having no right to do so or any reasonable ground to believe the person has such a right, the person knowingly accesses, causes to be accessed, or exceeds the person's authorized access to a computer, computer system, computer program, computer network, or any part of a computer system or network source: Saying some liability, for the crime committed using a piece of software, should be directed at the software manufacturer seems equally distorted to me.

Unless of course, serious negligence on the part of the manufacturer can be demonstrated. However in the case of a software bug that seems rather unlikely to me You have to understand, this is how TD looks at many things.

Piracy is wrong, it's illegal, it's violating the law, but because it is technically possible, it is somehow someone else's fault. No matter what defects may exist in the slot machine, the intent of the "high roller" was to defraud the casino.

He didn't win the money fairly, he took advantage of a programming glitch to rob them. No different from finding a door open and stealing what is in someones car or finding the door open to a store late and night and thinking it's okay to steal their inventory.

It is truly a logical fail, and it explains why TD often has such a weird view of things. The eejit profile , 7 Jan 8: TD has always said that piracy is against the law. What Mike and others often aregue, is that the laws should be changed in favour of the consumers, not faceless megacorps.

On this particular issue, however, I agree with those who find Mike's conclusion questionable. Technically speaking, it is fraud. And being technically correct is the best kind of correct. Really though, it's the same thing. Fraud is illegal, but somehow TD appears to be shoving the responsibility off onto everyone else.

The piracy deal is the same. It may be illegal, but because it is technically possible and it happens because "the industry isn't meeting people's needs" it is somehow right. The burden of responsibility gets transferred to someone else, not the lawbreaker. This case just makes the mentality and the logic so much clearer.

Eugene profile , 7 Jan From a civil standpoint, if I was that casino, I would sue the HELL out of that slot manufacturer for negligence in selling me a faulty product that put my business at risk.

Which is pretty much what Mike is suggesting here in so many words. To say the manufacture bears no responsibility whatsoever, simply because they didn't do the stealing, is naive. Huph , 7 Jan 9: I think you're right in that TD often encourages more sane laws in favor of the public vs corporations, but as far as piracy goes, my take on the TD line is that legality is a non-issue now that technology makes it hard NOT to copy something, what's important is finding a way to make money in spite of it.

Pragmatism is the name of the game. There's a lot of soft endorsement of illegal distribution, along with people who are outright loud about it. There are people who seem to think that artists are lazy chumps who want a free ride, and people who apparently have a problem with anyone exercising any legal muscle.

Luckily there are some dissenting voices of reason, who are neither "IP Maximalists" nor "Freetards". All these phrases and sloganeering are dumb as hell and only serve to trivialize how complicated these issues really are. Let's cut out this ad campaign for issues and appeal to people through their reason and intellect I do kind of wish they would bring in some writers with more varied opinions.

For instance, I agree with the criticism that TD loves to dispense business advice for musicians without any real clear idea of what goes into a musical career. The complicated web of credits and legalities that go into bringing multiple creative people together with their own input to and ownership of a project We're not all solo artists!

She's not a model for future musicians. Now, it is true that some artists will in fact bubble up, but it's mostly going to be boring mid-level talent with an interesting story behind them. Marcus Carab profile , 7 Jan For a whole new Leonard Cohen? I can't imagine a limit to what I'd trade We have a winner. Soft peddling the legality of piracy isn't the half of it.

Really, they key is that all discussions start with "now that music has no market value When you start from an odd point of view like TD does, you end up down some dusty dirt roads of thought. You won't find many shining examples of musicians "making it", because most of the examples that keep coming up here are bands who made it on the label system, or who are playing indie when they really are not.

Some of the examples are artists on the back side of a good label career, selling their time to wealthy patrons who basically pay them to write music nobody will even listen to. On one side, it's nasty to think of the artists talking down the label system, and then cashing the checks, living on their licensing deals, and collecting royalties up the wazzo every time their stuff plays, and on the other side you have people who most of us wouldn't listen to if we were paid. That doesn't make for much advancement.

I would give up all of the youtube age to get to sit through one more Frank Zappa concert. Damn, I miss his wit, skill, and intelligence and potty humor. CommonSense profile , 7 Jan 9: This guy didn't do anything himself except use the slot machines. Any tinkering to the machine, as explained in the summary up there, was done by casino workers. Yes, he had to ask them, but they said yes and did the work.

By your logic, if I went to the batting cages, chose a cage that I knew had an adjustable throwing machine, asked an employee to adjust it so that it would throw a couple extra balls for my dollar and he agreed and did so, I would be guilty of a crime.

In the case of the casino, the only "crime" i see, is the foolishness of the casino workers to adjust the machines that this guy was winning on.

This should be a lesson to the casino only, and they should fix their faulty machines. You cash register analogy is woefully inadequete and not similiar at all. Let's go for another one. Let's say you just put a dollar into change machine and instead of giving you 4 quarters, it gives 8.

You try it again and the same thing happens.

with all knives

To increase your chances of winning, you can bet your money on multiple paylines. The more paylines you bet on, the greater the chance is that a combination will land on one. The number of paylines differs from slot to slot. This can range from one to dozens of paylines.

One rule for the casino and one rule for me playing it. The rule for me playing is that I will get a heck of a lot more enjoyment playing the machine than what it will cost, and so I will win every time no matter what I spend. Now you, on the other hand, apparently have some other kind of rule that seems impossible but I really hope is true.

I would advise you to pick up slot with highest RTP return to player rate. It determines expected value for player. This page may be out of date. Save your draft before refreshing this page. Submit any pending changes before refreshing this page. Ask New Question Sign In. What is the game rule of a casino slot machine? Slots game rules Slots have been popular in casinos for many years.

I let myself imagine this had been an ancient mystery school where students learned the secrets of the universe, where Merlin may have instructed King Arthur. Much of our present day confusion around the terms Labyrinth and Maze comes from the famous Cretan Myth of The Menitor in the Labyrinth.

In order for anyone to become trapped in a labyrinth it had to be what we today think of as a puzzle maze. The difference is profound. Unlike the high hedged Maze commonly found in Victorian Gardens and American corn fields with confusing paths and dead ends, the ancient labyrinth is a special kind of maze consisting of a single path with no blind alleys, no wrong turns and no getting lost.

By simply putting one foot in front of the other you will be lead down the meandering path to the center and back out to the entrance. While this unicursal labyrinth calms, centers, balances, and connects you to the Heaven and the Earth, the puzzle maze; upsets, diminishes, isolates and creates fear and separation.

It is a place of total confusion, bewilderment and entrapment. Having walked into a hedge maze in Saffron Walden, England, I found myself totally lost and hating every moment. I had to bolt out through two rows of hedge to gain my freedom. There are a variety of ancient designs for the Labyrinth: Whatever the form, they seem to have provided people with a profoundly moving experience or an inward journey powerful enough to warrant their being found around the world spanning centuries of time.

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This comes in to play most often during slot machine bonus rounds. And they were fucking with you. Sounds like you've got optimal play memorized. Hope you've got a club card so you're getting comped on amount bet.

Try to find a place that comps on amount bet, rather than coin in. Man if I ever found any evidence of them doing that, I would have to get their license taken away I don't particular mind that the house always win, but cheating is another thing. It's not cheating, it's just that your bonus would have been predetermined, and picking between different items on screen is really just eye candy.

There's absolutely no way a casino would use a machine that cheats, and there's no way a manufacturer would sell a machine that cheats. Both companies know that it would basically shut them down permanently if it happened. To what extent has your programming for players' clubs involved card counters or other advantage players?

Casinos really take card counting personally, but they often forget to wipe out the comps that card counters have earned. Is this an issue you have worked on? Do you deal with issues having to do with comps e. Most casinos use pit bosses to identify counters. Once they're identified, they're just flagged in the back end system. There are a couple IAMAs here from counters and it didn't sound like they would try to use club cards while playing.

Are you asking about points earned based on play, or about comps given? It looks like you're asking about comps given. If so, well, once a casino gives something to a player, they can't take it back.

Doesn't matter if it's a free meal, a tshirt, a car, or a small pacific island. Sounds like you guys were pretty on top of the whole counter issue. Makes sense the way you lay it out. Can't imagine a counter would last too long there. Environment - depends on the department.

Dress code - relaxed tshirt and jeans. Work culture - depends on the project. How much do you make? How many years of software development do you have? Other sectors you've worked in? What kinds of bugs can arise from your systems? Besides tasks surrounding RNG, what exactly is there to do? Do you write software for new machines? Upgrades for old machines?

It seems like once the software goes thru vigorous testing it's ready to go live and the job is done, what more is there to do? Can you reuse bits and pieces from other systems? You want my earnings? Not going to say. As far as I know, all of us make a decent wage, but nothing spectacular. OS and IDE depends on the project. For what it's worth, I prefer Python and Django.

And I hate Java. Ultimately, they're all just tools - we do the best with whatever environment we have to use. There isn't really an upgrade path for software. If a new version is released, the earlier software on the machine is wiped out and overwritten completely. Currently I write software for undisclosed projects. The job is never done. We are always looking for new ways to engage players and make sure that they enjoy their time on our machines.

I have an idea. Make the machine pay less money more often. When I play, much like you I don't play to win because I know the odds. I play for the free alcohol. You're looking for a low volatility game. There are a couple of video poker forums where you can read up on which variants have the highest payback percentage.

And yeah, your point about length of play is a good one. There's been a lot of thought about that in the industry lately. Lately being the last 10 years It seems like lately manufacturers are starting to understand this again and have started putting more emphasis on fun rather than simply extracting as much cash from a player as quickly as possible.

I'm a software engineer - how did you get a job writing this software? It's always seemed pretty interesting, which companies would I need to apply to? First off - you must have a clean criminal record. It sucks, but there's no way around it. I got the job because I was a SQL guru and fit well into the exact position they were looking for.

Since then I've grown into more areas and responsibilities. You should apply to all of the slot manufacturers if you want to write code for games. You should apply to all of the casinos if you want a job working on apps and backend software.

Your best bet is to find a good recruiter in Vegas. They will know the industry and where you'd be best placed. Send me a private message and I'll see if I can recommend a recruiter. I do that so I can better understand what our competition is up to. And most importantly, I do it so I can see things from a player's perspective. Maybe I sidestepped your real question I don't gamble, since I know the odds. But I do play any and all machines just so I keep in touch.

I lose a lot of my own money, but I figure it's worth it to really see things from the perspective of a player. Thank you for that. I'm going to tell my mother-in-law about this comment, since she's gambling away her grandchildren's inheritance. I would encourage you to look into gambling addiction resources so that you can present her with some reasonable discussion, rather than a blunt attack on her lifestyle been through this before.

For instance, any result of a wager must be physically written to disk and guaranteed not to be cached in the drive's cache before the result can be displayed to the player. You can look at the NGCB website for the specific regulations.

But basically, the slot machine must never ever lose information about the previous 30 I think 30, it's been a while since I read the regs wagers and outcomes. A significant amount of the engineering that goes into a slot machine is there specifically to make sure it cannot cheat a player out of a valid win.

Also, logging is extremely important. According to the regs, the machine must be able to recall everything about those past 30 games. So if there's a dispute, a regulatory agent can walk up to the machine, plug in a key, and play back everything that happened on the machine, including every button or screen press the player made, all RNG results, and more.

Which jurisdictions do you write code for? The logging I have to do isn't nearly so in depth. I have to recall the last 10 game outcomes, each of which has to be able to display 50 subgame outcomes, but that's it.

We have meters and things we record but there's very little data involved in an actual game record and it's almost all tied to the game result. Did you ever write some super secret code into the software that only you knew? And in such a way that you can win money every time, using your secret method?

Nope, never even considered it. The only person that did that back in the 80s, I think is currently in prison. The identities of the 10 big gamblers, and what each gambler bet, won, lost, and the average bets made, are completely redacted, to protect police investigations.

The big gamblers studied were sometimes cashing out tickets redeemed for slot machine credits not played, review documents say. Casino experts say that gamblers can submit slot machine vouchers into ticket redemption machines and receive cash back in exchange, and that in this way gamblers do not need to be identified at casino cashier windows. A heavily redacted conclusion for the slot audit states: It appears that while controls are in place within BCLC systems to detect suspicious slot play, they may not be utilized to their full potential.

According to the allegations, in October Mancini was stopped by police in a Chevrolet Camaro, parked in a handicapped stall of the Chances Casino in Chilliwack. He had been spotted driving erratically, and was arrested after failing a sobriety test. The three casino cheques were from Lake City Casino.

The seized money was found to be covered in drug residue, the claim alleges. Verified wins are defined by BCLC as the cash paid out to a gambler, minus the amount bet by the gambler. In a statement, a BCLC spokeswoman said: All slot-machine jackpot winnings are verified by gaming facility staff. This extensive process begins with the machine freezing, disallowing further play until the win is verified through several procedures.

Your account has been reactivated. You must verify your email address before signing in. Check your email for your verification email, or enter your email address in the form below to resend the email.

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A review of gamblers placing massive bets in B. Documents say a B. Investigators studied the period from April to April The identities of the 10 big gamblers, and what each gambler bet, won, lost, and the average bets made, are completely redacted, to protect police investigations. The big gamblers studied were sometimes cashing out tickets redeemed for slot machine credits not played, review documents say. Casino experts say that gamblers can submit slot machine vouchers into ticket redemption machines and receive cash back in exchange, and that in this way gamblers do not need to be identified at casino cashier windows.

A heavily redacted conclusion for the slot audit states: It appears that while controls are in place within BCLC systems to detect suspicious slot play, they may not be utilized to their full potential. According to the allegations, in October Mancini was stopped by police in a Chevrolet Camaro, parked in a handicapped stall of the Chances Casino in Chilliwack.

He had been spotted driving erratically, and was arrested after failing a sobriety test. The three casino cheques were from Lake City Casino. The seized money was found to be covered in drug residue, the claim alleges.

Verified wins are defined by BCLC as the cash paid out to a gambler, minus the amount bet by the gambler. In a statement, a BCLC spokeswoman said: All slot-machine jackpot winnings are verified by gaming facility staff. This extensive process begins with the machine freezing, disallowing further play until the win is verified through several procedures. Your account has been reactivated. You must verify your email address before signing in.

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According to the regs, the machine must be able to recall everything about those past 30 games. So if there's a dispute, a regulatory agent can walk up to the machine, plug in a key, and play back everything that happened on the machine, including every button or screen press the player made, all RNG results, and more.

Which jurisdictions do you write code for? The logging I have to do isn't nearly so in depth. I have to recall the last 10 game outcomes, each of which has to be able to display 50 subgame outcomes, but that's it. We have meters and things we record but there's very little data involved in an actual game record and it's almost all tied to the game result.

Did you ever write some super secret code into the software that only you knew? And in such a way that you can win money every time, using your secret method? Nope, never even considered it. The only person that did that back in the 80s, I think is currently in prison. The industry doesn't attract the kind of people who would considering doing so.

Kind of boring - no intrigue or excitement. But you could if you wanted to right? And if so, is it possible to bury the code so deep that no one will know?

The guy who did it in the 80s was able to do so because back then a machine could be developed by a single person. Those days are gone. These days the software is complex enough and most manufacturers are paranoid enough such that there are at least two people who see and understand every bit of code that goes into any machine. The chance of both people and a few others in the process risking serious prison time is pretty much zero.

Ron Harris did it in the 90's and he's out of prison now. What I don't get is, he was smart enough to do all this, then he bet a run on Keno, which is statistically basically impossible, which led to his arrest.

The silly thing is, Keno pays off full for a run, so a run is for idiots only. That's the guy I've been alluding to for a while. Forgot that it was in the 90s - I'd thought it was the late 80s. I can't think of any mistakes you could make that would lose a casino money. Most mistakes tend to fall in their favor. And if you look at other threads on reddit from people that work in casinos, there's really no threat of violence from a casino. If you abuse the casino, they just ask you to leave.

If you do something criminal, they just hold you in a back room until the police arrive and then turn you over to them. I meant a mistake such as writing a unit test which doesn't actually test the right thing, and consequently introducing a bug which causes anomalous payouts.

Things like that might easily look malicious even if they are not. In my case I would probably get fired and gain a reputation pretty quickly that would mean I wouldn't be able to find a job in the industry again. I know of at least two companies that had things like that happen. Both honored the win, paid out, and then had discussions with their insurance companies.

I don't know the fate of the programmer in either case - but in one of the two I'm fairly sure nothing bad happened, since it wasn't really caused by any one person's mistake.

In practice, though, they'd rather get trouble makers off the property. So a belligerent drunk might get held down below if he's causing harm to other guests, but most likely they'll just call a cab and pawn the problem off onto the cab driver. There are plenty of places in Vegas for non gamblers.

Even in the major casinos, there are showrooms and restaurants, and concert venues, and plays, and etc etc etc. Out side of that, Vegas is a normal city. We have all the stuff most other cities have. Except a sports team. There is a while tourism and convention industry. I don't gamble and I still enjoy living and working here.

A lot of people complain about a lack of culture and community, but it always seems like those people aren't actually getting out and trying to find it.

Plus I've always found Vegas to be a friendlier place than anywhere else I've lived - it definitely doesn't suffer from the Seattle Freeze. Also a great area for offroading, shooting, hiking, climbing, camping, and just about every other outdoor activity. I don't exactly like living in an area where our entire economy is basically dependent on discretionary income. Tourist destinations are always slower to recover than the general economy. The big concern is Macau And I will give Goodman credit - he tried to expand the economy by encouraging manufacturing and high-tech businesses in the city.

And there are a lot of small custom manufacturers here. It's not a bad place to set up shop. And it's not a bad foundation for an economy, just have to save up to be able to wait out the lean times. Unfortunately, it looks like most major businesses here haven't done that. If you were going to go in to a casino and try to actually win some money, what would you look for as external signs to choose a machine? If you have a casino nearby, you should look for the video poker machines and start reading through some video poker forums for tips.

You won't win money, but you can get a lot of comps. If you're just an occasional visitor, I'd either get really good at poker or learn how to count blackjack.

If you're in an area with multiple casinos, the best you can really do on slot machines is to compare the payouts between two machines with the same game. Look for one that has higher payouts. That will give you a better chance, because the machine is set to a higher payback, but still won't guarantee anything. It's all still completely random. Can you program in a auto-win code, like in Ocean's Thirteen. Maybe something all redditors could remember, like the konami code?

But no, there's no way that would or even could happen these days. There's way too much oversight for anyone to try it. And like I've said before - no one working in the industry would ever even think about it. We all prefer our careers over prison. And to expand a bit - the background checks for people writing slot machine software and even back of house software such as the accounting systems can be pretty intense.

We make jokes about it, but some jurisdictions actually do a background check that's comparable to a government top secret clearance check. I used to work on the accounting integration systems for many casino's in CA and the front end kiosks used by staff.

No background checks for anyone at our company. But that was in And maybe it's different for Indian casinos. CA really only pays attention to GLI, and that's more of a suggestion than a requirement. Anyway, not surprised that you didn't have to do any background checks. Things are different in different areas. In a lot of areas, um, things are a bit fast and loose - those aren't areas where I'd be willing to gamble. Could you kill two birds with one stone and get a Secret clearance at the same time?

If they're gathering the information anyway, why not? Sadly, the government doesn't work that way. But at least I know that if I ever need a top secret clearance, I can get it. In the late 90s there was a lot of research done to try to understand why people like playing slot machines. Most of that research was ignored Right now the big buzzword is Farmville.

So everyone in the industry is trying to understand how that works on a person and leverage it. Yeah, we're all a bit slow.

Above my level, I don't know. I can't really say what they do or don't know. However, I do know that amongst my team, most of us have read at least one book dealing with the psychology of gaming. And thus we work towards meeting those goals.

Disclaimer Everyone at my level see's the future coming. So we're not worried about hooking players. We're most concerned with what we can do to make the experience fun for a player. And part of making something fun is to engage the player and reward them for playing.

I spent a few months doing front end interfaces for casino games. My take on it was that it's a unique culture. Lots of money thrown away rather than running a coherent company. No leadership, no communications or collaboration.

Most everybody in the place was a sad old man with some sort of addiction. People came and went, often without titles This is Bob, he's the new Tim. Random trips and random showing people around.

The company would pay for things you wouldn't expect, from oil changes to all the free power drinks and jerkey at work. Yeah, there was a time to when just being in the business guaranteed profits. That's not so true today. I have no idea where you worked, but what you describe is in no way the norm. It kind of sounds like you were working with a company we know about I worked for U1 gaming in Montana.

They make machines here and were just breaking in, in Nevada. The same guys made up Montana Video Lottery and another short lived company. I left there with such a bad taste that I probably wouldn't even think about going back into casino games.

Anyway, a lot of companies are managed pretty poorly. It sounds like you ended up dealing with a crappy company. Not much I can do for you other than hope that you found a better place to work. I did, and considered myself lucky that I wasn't tied up in legal problems for years like others that worked there.

Two different sound guys ended up taking them to court over issues. I've made video games for a number of companies and this was the last. I now animate for scientific out reach and make interactive educational software and am much happier. That's a pretty crappy company, but it's good to hear that you got out. Happy to hear that you're doing well now. I've heard that slot machines are often programmed to first figure out the amount a customer wins, and then displays an appropriate front end based on that.

Rather than having actual random 'wheels'. Nope, that's completely false. Every spin is independent of the next. Slot machines don't analyze your behavior - there's no reason to. I don't think you understood me correctly, or I might of written my question wrong. I know each spin is independent of each other.

My question was how an individual spin is logically programmed. Let me try again, with an example this time. Once this value is determined, the machine than displays the pretty picture that shows a win of that size. So it determines you won 25 credits first, and then shows that you won that cause u had 3 lions or whatever. And you're correct as far as the individual spins goes. The machine determines and records a win or not before it presents it to the player.

I think most slot players would be surprised to learn this. I imagine they are naively believing that they really were so close to winning a jackpot. Do you see any ethical issues with this? I think slots aren't fun but am okay with it, but wish more slot players understood this fact of how the game actually functions. See my post above where I wanted to help someone that sounded like they have a real problem. I'm no more conflicted than loggers, oil rig workers, car designers, hair stylists, or tele-tubby actors.

That's why I put Larry's name in quotes. You should be ashamed of yourself trying to sully his good name. By making it appear as if he's wasting time in the internet when he could be working? What kind of software dev process do you use where you work? Is it a 'hip and modern' agiley sort of process or more cowboy like? More specifically, do you unit test slots software? Anything else interesting or unusual in the process compared to other development jobs?

Different manufacturers have different processes. I can't go into too much detail about ours, except that unit tests, functional test, and math verification tests are all extremely important to the process. What would you say the best way to test random functions is?

I asked in more detail at stackoverflow but never really got an answer I was happy with. If you're actually facing a real world scenario where this kind of thing becomes important, send me a private message - I'd be very interested in helping out and learning.

That's not really my department. But I have read the regs, and the requirements for physical security of the machines are impressive. They have to be able to stand up to some pretty severe abuse and keep operating, without being affected by external conditions. I'd say that physically, slot machines are far more secure than ATMs. There were a couple threads on reddit not too long ago from card counters that addressed these far better than I can.

There are a few. I can't remember any specifically - they're pretty rare and mostly nonexistent these days. And they would be display only. Yeah, everyone knows about them. Send me a private message if you want to discuss further. Have you been following any of the crazy casino busts in Alabama? For those of you outside of "Real sic America" the governor is on a holy crusade against casinos. Yes, I have been. I try to keep up on any news that may affect the industry I'm in.

Yeah, I'm a programmer, but it doesn't hurt to be aware of the wider implications of the world that might affect what I'm doing. I think I answered this above. And that doesn't count the database languages Hope she enjoys the job, and I hope it keeps her happy until she's retired and can sit back and watch other people do the job. Ive been told if a casino is not paying out enough based on regulations that at the end of certain time frame month, or 6 month, or 1 year that they will let a bunch of people win to even out the books.

Do they have any control over how many people win or not? That's news to me. I don't want to hurt their business, but reservation casinos are kind of a different world. All I'll say is that in a regulated environment like Vegas or Atlantic City, that would never happen. Same with slot machines. For reservation casinos , they have to give out at least X percentage of what they take in right? This is what I was told , they have a minimum that they have to give out. I'm not going to comment on reservation casinos.

Just keep in mind that they try to operate as a sovereign nation.

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